Savage or Remington 308 Winchester
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Topic: Savage or Remington 308 Winchester
Posted By: Gerry
Subject: Savage or Remington 308 Winchester
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2008 at 5:38pm
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I know this is a non-Automag topic but this is the only forum I write to.
I am looking at a Remington 700 Tactical vs a similar model from Savage. Both have medium heavy 20" barrels and are of similar configurations. Price about the same. I was looking at the new Remington VLF model in the same caliber but with a 26" barrel.
Primary usage would be paper punching at up to 500 yards.
How much velocity would be gained going from a 20" barrel to a 26" in a 308 Winchester?
Your input is welcomed.
Gerry
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Replies:
Posted By: usrguns
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2008 at 9:02pm
I just sold a Savage tactical 308 in order to buy my 10mm Magnum. The freind I bought it from swear's it was the most accurate rifle he has ever had. I am not a rifle man, mostly handguns, but he needed cash so I helped him out. He swears by the Savage. At the gun show where I sold it I got the same response from the guy I sold it to. So for my 2 cents worth I would say the Savage
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Posted By: Ginsaw
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2008 at 10:35pm
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Gerry, I'd call either Win, Rem or Sav and ask them. These companies can be surprisingly helpful. Rem even has replaced gratis shotgun parts for me they didn't have to.
It may take some luck to get an exact answer. It will get down to whether most of the powder is burned in that first 20" that would be burned in a 26". I don't see how that can be answered without having been tested. Then you have so many different 308 mfgers, bullet weights, bullet styles, and powders, each probably with its own rate of burning.
If you check the mfgers published data they generally say what length barrel was used. That would be a starting point.
Good luck on it.
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Posted By: curmudgeon
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2008 at 12:33am
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From the past 8-10 years the Savage has come to the forefront over the Rem 700...I have shot several of the various Savage tactical models in both 308 and 300 Win Mag, that have grouped into the 1/4 MOA range out to 500 yds, in a couple cases 1 MOA to 800 yds.
By using Lilja bbls and BR bluprinting I've been able to reduce only to 1/8 MOA groups to 800-900 yds. Poorer shooting was my fault not the rifles...You will not find a more accurate out of the box rifle for F Class, and or Varmint, particularly in the 30 cal. This all of course is with Carefully loaded match ammo. You do not need a 26" bbl in 308. Best accuracy is 2600 fps with Sierra MK's you can easily get 2600 fps with a 20" bbl... For all practical purposes the 308 is the best cartridge for Varmint and or F class unless maybe a 6BR or the 6.5/284
I think I saw where Savage is now offering a 6.5/284??
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Posted By: Gerry
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2008 at 10:45pm
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LEJ et el
Here is site with alot of info on LR shooting.
http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html - http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html
Gerry
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Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2008 at 6:15pm
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If I ever should have to choose one or the other, I"ll would just stick to this one:   This is my winning combination, 300 WinMag, Leupold 6-24x40, Leupold rings put as far appart as the scope let you to.
Put the bullets almost in the same hole every time at 100 meter.
Also have this Remington in 22-250, but I can never get the same results as the Savage.
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Posted By: curmudgeon
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2008 at 12:23am
| Bases look ok Luc but you need some Niteforce rings..., in Leopold I prefer the 50mm objective, with SF. Otherwise the Niteforce 5.5x22 In Leopold MK 4 only... But the Niteforce is much betterv when you are cranking back anf forth everal times a day from a 100 yd. zero to 7,8,900 yds. We probably do that more here than what you would do there. 100 yd zero is just a reference point we shoot for groups here at 500....We expect 3 shots under a 1/2" here where most are satisfied with that at 100 yds. Geography makes the difference.. :-) |
Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2008 at 1:09pm
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Lee, thanks for the comments.
While I agree that Nightforce are very good scopes, I chose the Leupold years ago as the best what was available at that time. Never felt the need to change for the limmited shooting I can do here. I realize that shooting the 300 winmag at this distance is very near for such caliber, but I rather shoot it at just 100 meter than not shooting it at all.
The 40mm objective is just fine to use on paper targets, we have good lights in the range and I know where the targets are before I start shooting, so I think the 50mm is not really neccesary for me.
I do whish we could shoot at longer distances, but our gouv't has an allergy for shooting ranges...........
oh, and forget about hunting here, we have not much to hunt for anyway.........
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Posted By: curmudgeon
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2008 at 5:36pm
| Luc, my comments were for comparison only not meant to devalue your choice or your reasoning by any means. 40 MM Objective I have used most of the time for the same reasons as yourself. I have always been a Leupold fan, but the main reason for the Nitefore is durability and the coil spring adjustments being more positive than the leaf spring used in all other scopes. As I switched back and forth from the smaller calibers to 50 BMG rifles, the durability showed up. This is not a problem for most shooters. But starting about 10 years ago I started getting back more into rifles. Both building and shooting than in handguns, still Big Game hunt with a handgun, but Varmints, and Targets with the rifle as well as building them....Cheers |
Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2008 at 6:18pm
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Lee, I didn't took your comments as negative, on the contrary!I was just giving the reason why I chose this combination of rifle-scope etc. in my above post.
While we're at this subject, do have you experience with Swarowski scopes and 50 caliber rifles.
We have a customer with a Steyr 50 rifle, and he want nothing else but Swarowski scopes.
Thanks, Luc.
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Posted By: curmudgeon
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2008 at 10:03pm
| Luc, not in shooting with the Swaroski scopes but, they did give me a 3x12 to shoot and test a few years back. I told them the reticle was too large and it became larger with a magnification increase. They told me this problem was solved and had been changed with recent Manufacture. I have never tried one since so I can't say for sure. I have never heard of a durability problem tho. But 50 BMG can bring on problems that don't show up in other formats. Some still use the Leupolds on 50 BMG but its just a matter of when they go...when shooting 50's....Niteforce seems to have solved that problem. Why start with something that you know is going to have to be replaced. In fairness however unless shooting in comp most 50 BMG owners don't fire that many rounds at it could be 2-3 years before the scope gives up the ghost. This is not only my personal feelings but the same with many 50 BMG shooters...Cheers |
Posted By: Gerry
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2008 at 12:38am
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To add to the post
My brother Robert, a former Marine Sniper/Scout in the early 1980's used a Model 700 customized by the USMC. It had a 22" barrel and they shot it out to 800 meters on MOVING targets.
From the website I found for LR shooters, the gain in velocity from 20" to 26" is about 200 fps or so.
Talk about reach out and touch someone!
Gerry
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Posted By: curmudgeon
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2008 at 2:35am
| Gerry the Military loads for 2700 fps. The BR and F class general shoot for 2550 t0 2600 fps...Both easily obtainable in a 20" bbl. The best accuracy is in the 2600 fps range. There is a big difference in shooting man sized targets at 800 yds than shooting 2" groups at the same difference. Hitting a man at 800 yds with a good 308 is not that big a deal with a little practice and a bit of wind doping knowlege. In fact a coyote is pretty big compared to shooting 2 " groups at the same distance. Not to belittle the snipers at the least, but they practice alot. The best anymore are probably the Marines, but there are a couple Seals and Army shooters who might disagree... |