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Better late than never, Automag II, Long post

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Category: Auto Mag Pistol
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URL: http://www.amtguns.info/forum_posts.asp?TID=2777
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Topic: Better late than never, Automag II, Long post
Posted By: Craig0ry
Subject: Better late than never, Automag II, Long post
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2022 at 2:21pm
Well better late than never to the party, 
Been almost a month since I picked up this gorgeous Automag II.
Being in Canada they are even more of a rare bird to find. And what a fun an frustrating trip its been.
Was Given a single box of Winchester super X JHP with the gun, When I went to fire it everything worked perfectly, Good ooomph and nice fireball, with super mild recoil!

Thinking heck ya it works with the cheapest ammo available I went a bought a few more boxes, This time Win Super X FMJ, same advertised muzzle velocity.

This is where the issue started. It wouldn't feed a single round, And if I got one to chamber it wouldn't fully eject it after firing. Went back and tried the JHP ammo and boom still worked awesome. Found out after older Winchester 22wmr had quite a lot more oomph than new production ammo, Was sad to find that out.

So my internet Journey began, Started creeping posts on many websites, Including this one for the last 3 weeks, Lots of great info was found, Unfortunately a lot of it is dated back quite a few years, hence my better Late than never.

I see Larry Grossman and member sirsaka haven't been online since 2018, Which is too bad, They seemed to be a good wealth of information!

I noticed the reason the JHP ammo would chamber was because instead of the nose of the bullet driving into the little space between the feed ramp and the chamber it would instead shave off a good chunk of the lead tip and scrape some of the copper jacket.

In order to remedy this I did a polish job between the feed ramp and the chamber being VERY careful to not remove much if any material that could cause an unsupported chamber. That worked and feeding was now a non issue with the cheap Win super X FMJ ammo.

Now was onto the ejection.
I cleaned the barrel and gun to the best of my abilities, Used and ultrasonic cleaner quite a few times on the barrel to help clean out the chamber holes and gas ports. With inspection with a borescope I noticed the holes closest to the breech were semi plugged with copper jacket, Tried to dissolve them with copper killer but that didn't seem to work, Did what I could do with a dentist pick but still not happy with it. The rest of the system was as clean as a whistle, not a spec of carbon anywhere.

Next polished the frame rails and any other metal contact party, Ordered Stainless steel gun lube as well. 
Still the pistol would feed fine but not eject.

Seem a member here had posted about the same problem and then shortening his recoil spring by 3 coils and being able fire any brand he tried.

I did this as well and still no go on the FMJ ammo.

So off I went to pick up more ammo to try, Picked up 6 more types but its been to cold to test.

Also the gun came with 4 new later production mags that didn't work at all while trying to feed the gun. Spring tension was insanely heavy, I also had to trim them, as well as a bit of work to the bottom of the mag to ensure consistent seating. They seem to work good now. 

Anyways thought I'd share this new gun I absolutely love! even though its a pain in my arse!
Here's some photos of the gun, The issues and the work.





Replies:
Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 3:02pm
Hi Craig, Welcome to the AMT forum.

Yes those 22WMR pistols are picky about the ammunition, or better the powder to burn.
I have good luck and no issues with Federal FMJ.

Regards,
Luc V.





Posted By: Craig0ry
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by Luc V. Luc V. wrote:

Hi Craig, Welcome to the AMT forum.

Yes those 22WMR pistols are picky about the ammunition, or better the powder to burn.
I have good luck and no issues with Federal FMJ.

Regards,
Luc V.




Love the looks of that 4.5", if I ever see one pop up for sale I'll be sure to grab it! I picked up a box of the federal 40gr fmj to try last weekend, when I get around to shooting it I'll see how they work! Fingers crossed 


Posted By: Luvz2Shoot
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 8:10pm
I've messed with these a little myself also.  I (personally) have taken a dremel to mine and have gotten them to work.

A couple areas were the feed ramp and that sharp lip at the chamber (that you mentioned).  I either grind or file that down a little taking that sharp edge off.  I am not concerned with what I did by removing a little of it off.  Yeah, the back of the shell isn't 100% "supported" but i am not concerned with the tiny bit that isn't supporting the cartridge now.

In the picture you'll see where your extractor rests on the notch of the barrel when the slide is closed.  I have also taken a dremel and removed some material so the extractor does not touch the notch on the barrel.  This also allows a more positive grab on the rim of the casing when ejecting.  I think that it will also start to wear away the extractor lip if the extractor continually hits/rests on the notch (that's my theory anyway - haha).

I have also taken a small dowel and cut a slot in it.  I wrap a small piece of emery cloth around it and polish the inside of the chamber.  Trying to get it as mirror-like as possible without removing a bunch of material.

I haven't run across anything that I couldn't shoot through them yet.

Also, make sure that when you take it apart for cleaning that you put it back together correctly.  Make sure the guide rod is setting properly.  The guide rod should set almost even with the guide rod plug.

Good luck and have fun.  Once these run correctly, they are fun!






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If you were happy and you knew it, would you clap your hands?


Posted By: Craig0ry
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 4:46am
I've read and seen most of your posts on here too in my weeks of creeping Luvz2shoot. Seen the extractor notch done on both the AMT and High Standard barrels. 

I've polished quite a few chambers as well usually with a drill, a nylon brush and some fine steel wool. I'll most likely do it to this pistol to see if it helps. I thought the recoil spring was going to solve the issues but not quite.

Back to the barrel notch for the extractor, I notices on quite a few of my higher end 22 rifles the extractor also runs its way up the ramp to disengage from the rim and like this automag does, It seems like a smooth transition with both parts having a nice angle. I think I'll leave it for now. 

I tried a few different types of ammo today, I wouldn't call it a success. The federal FMJ ran about 95% with some failure to eject being the other 5%, I notices one blew a hole right through the case wall where one of the dimples were. And the dimples were much more pronouced on the brass than the previous Winchester I'd shot.

Upon trying the Remington it actually blew 2 holes through the sidewall and the case didn't extract.

I'll have to try some more ammo tomorrow. 

Here is the Remington case.



Posted By: WVWRZ500N
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2022 at 3:57pm
Craig,

Welcome to the board.  I was likely the one you read about cutting down the recoil spring.

I too have not had any luck with the aftermarket mags, only OEM originals seem to have the proper angle and release to the shell rim needed to function.

One thing I was careful to do during inspection was to put the slide on without the recoil spring and cycle rounds very slowly into the chamber making note of their exact movement from magazine to breach.  I had to make slight bends to the magazine lips to get the rounds to feed straight into the chamber.  All the polishing and refinement work certainly helped along with cutting the spring.  I've had the best luck with Hornady ammo, but the gun will function with other brands just fine.

Hopefully you'll get it sorted.

Regards,
Bill Wilson
Lee's Summit, MO
816-377-3185


Posted By: Craig0ry
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 5:15am
Hey Bill, Thanks for posting. I think I actually have the aftermarket mags sorted, I'll have to test again. But with the spring cut and some movement and smoothing of the feed lips they seemed to be worked. only experienced failure to eject after that. they were no longer jamming rounds into the bottom of the slide.

I was able to buy 7 more boxes of old Winchester(the only stuff that has ran 100%) of the fellow I purchased the pistol from. So I'll be able to thoroughly test the other magazines out.

I haven't tried the Hornady ammo I purchased yet but none of the other 30 grain ammo seemed to work, Perhaps the Hornady will. It is pricey compared to the rest. I've seen numerous posts about Aguila working in the finnicky guns, Its tough to track down up here, I found once place with it in stock but the shipping was a bit of a killer.

As for improvement modifications now I believe I've done just about all I can do to the pistol.

Craig


Posted By: TonyRumore
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 1:05pm
You might take a look at the breach face of the slide.  If there are tooling marks/roughness, it can prevent the case head from sliding smoothly upward across the breach face during feeding.
If the case can't get parallel with the bore, it's not going to feed.

Tony



Posted By: Craig0ry
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by TonyRumore TonyRumore wrote:

You might take a look at the breach face of the slide.  If there are tooling marks/roughness, it can prevent the case head from sliding smoothly upward across the breach face during feeding.
If the case can't get parallel with the bore, it's not going to feed.

Tony


Hey Tony, thanks for the advice, the breech face looks pretty good on this one, I suppose a polish wouldn't hurt it though, only issue I have now is ejection, slide not traveling far enough rearward for the spent case to hit the ejector, and then it becomes jammed against the barrel.

I have not taken the firing pin out, bit looks like I would need to removed the rear sight to do so? If anyone can confirm, it's a very small roll pin in there id hate to loose, not sure I have any that small in my kits.


Posted By: WVWRZ500N
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2022 at 7:51pm
Craig,

I will say this much as for the firing pin.  DO NOT dry fire this pistol!!!!  I made that mistake and it broke the hammer end of the pin off.

I get the Hornady ammo from BassPro Shop.  I'm sure Cabela's has it too.

Regards,
Bill Wilson
Lee's Summit, MO
816-377-3185


Posted By: Pantera Mike
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2022 at 6:35pm
Just FYI, whenever I want to practice dry-firing any semi-auto pistol with a hammer, no matter how robust or fragile, I wedge a foam earplug in the cavity at the rear of the slide. That blocks the hammer from reaching the firing pin and I can safely dry fire anything, including my Auto Mags, endlessly…..


Posted By: Craig0ry
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2023 at 7:40am
Well its been more than a year since I made this thread, If anyone cared for an update. I found Aguila 22 magnum ammo to function flawlessly in my gun, I bought a good amount that should last me quite a few years of shooting, I must have tried 10-15 different brand and types, this was the only one that worked perfect along with the old Winchester ammo. It definitely turned some heads during a steel challenge match.


Posted By: Yellow
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2023 at 6:05pm
I’m new here, but it’s really good to hear you found ammo that works. You have a REALLY nice pistol there!


Posted By: Rumore
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2023 at 5:51pm
This is what runs best in all mine.  I have a 3", 4.5", and 6".

Tony





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Run it up, until you blow it up, then back it down a bit.


Posted By: jw4570
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2023 at 8:50pm
Tony,

I'll have to try that in mine.  It didn't shoot so well in the PMR-30 (Gold Dot did).  But I've been shooting it in the CMR-30 (which seems to run anything).  I think I have some left.......

I've been real happy with the Aguila 22 LR (and shorts).  It's fun to load the Aguila shorts in a lever action (it holds 22 instead of 15).  My son just loved that.  Now that he is older, he just reloads it more.  

Jason



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