Automag V with big pills |
Post Reply
|
Page 12> |
| Author | |
Stainless Magnum
International Auto Mag
Joined: 10 Mar 2008 Location: New "Old West" Status: Offline Points: 89 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Topic: Automag V with big pillsPosted: 16 Jun 2008 at 3:52am |
|
I know there are some here who treasure reloading for their Automag V, so I though this might be of at least marginal interest.
I had'nt handled an Automag V for more than a few minutes my very first time before realizing the magazine was spacious. That is, it allowed for longer cartridge OAL than say a Desert Eagle mag. I pondered that some day I would exploit this with 400 grain bullets. That was more than 12 years ago. I finally got around to it.
The Sierra 400 grain JSP's for the .500 S&W mag looked ideal. They have a profile that looked accommodating to good feeding. The charge was festidiously decided upon at 14.0 grains of Blue Dot. Winchester standard large pistol primers were in order. OAL mic'ed in at 1.685". Taper crimped just behind the cannelure so that it is not visible; All of it concealed in the case. This allowed for a tiny amount of shoulder to resist the bullet from sinking into the case during forceful feeding. I may be forgetting other details, but it was just shy of a straight forward process.
Testing at the range proved fruitful and satisfying. Velocity was right at expectations. I was going for 900 f/ps. A 15 shot string averaged 874 f/ps. A high of 922, and a low of 821 were in the mix. No operation frustrations occurred, and was a pleasure. Accuracy was 2 1/2" at 25 yards, off sand bags.
Cautions of note. This was a renegade project for me, and post it for academic purposes. The 14 grain charge should not be reduced. I calculated it as a minimum, and have had high pressures before from Blue Dot undercharges. No explosions, but ridiculous recoil, velocity, and other notable signs in the cases. I do not know how much you can go over, since I do not intend to. I achieved what I wanted, and the gun cannot take more. It would be abusive. This load is right at it's operating range. Considering all this, accept the post for what it is, gun lore of marginal interest. Repeating this exercise is at your own risk. Yada, yada, yada......sorry I've seen alot of foolish gun behavior lately, and I think it's gotten to me.
David
|
|
|
"Feo, Fuerte, y Formal"
John Wayne, on how he would like to be thought of. Translation: Ugly, strong, and dignified. |
|
![]() |
|
Luc V.
Admin Group
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1433 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Jun 2008 at 8:16pm |
|
I tried a Nei harcast bullet 325 grains in my V at some time, loaded with 16 grains of bluedot, and found this round kicked more than enough.
The hottest .50AE I loaded with bluedot was 22 grains and a 300 grains FMJ but not to shoot in the Automag V, but in my T/C ENCORE with JDJ custom heavy barrel!!!
![]() ![]() |
|
![]() |
|
Stainless Magnum
International Auto Mag
Joined: 10 Mar 2008 Location: New "Old West" Status: Offline Points: 89 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Jun 2008 at 8:57pm |
|
This load was not hot at all. It behaved nicely. The charge can probably go up a few grains and deliver 1100+ f/ps. I would not submit my gun to that, except perhaps as a one time hunting round or something, but doubtful in any case.
The 22 grain load you mention would be hot for the Automag. You are correct in best using it through a T/C Contender. The 325 grain NEI with 16 grains of blue dot seems like an underload. If memory serves me correct, 21 grains of Blue Dot is a proper load for a 325 grainer. 16 would be a 25% reduction. 10% reduction would be more in order, at about 19 grains. If it behaved nastily, it could have been high pressure. It comes to mind only because of an experience I had similiar to this. I did a chronograph test series of the .50 AE and accidentally discovered the following:
15.5gr. Blue Dot under 350gr. XTP gave 1020 f/ps
15.1gr. Blue Dot under 350gr. XTP gave 975 f/ps
14.7gr. Blue Dot under 350gr. XTP gave 910 f/ps
14.5gr. Blue Dot under 350gr. XTP gave 1425 f/ps!!!!
The chronograph was checked for consistency, but recoil/blast was confirmational anyways. 5 rounds gave this result consistently. Pulling the remainder, and reloading back up .5 grain dropped the velocity back down. I no longer go below 15.1 grains on this bullet. I wonder if perhaps the same result happened to you. All the loads above, except for the underload, were mild to shoot (relatively speaking). Let me know what you think. I may have it all backwards, but my curiosity got the better of me. |
|
|
"Feo, Fuerte, y Formal"
John Wayne, on how he would like to be thought of. Translation: Ugly, strong, and dignified. |
|
![]() |
|
Luc V.
Admin Group
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1433 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Jun 2008 at 8:21pm |
|
David, thanks for the update information.
In my previous post, I should have better said 'heavy" load instead of hot load. What I ment was there aren't many autoloading pistols pushing heavy (weight) bullets down the barrel.
I would like to tell my experience with the bluedot loads I had, I had used it for years and was always very satisfied with this powder, but.......
.............Like you said, the 16 grains and NEI 325 Lead bullet SHOULD have being a mild load, but it turned out to be a strange 'agressive' one. Got 1500 fps trough my Chrony. (in the T/C 12 inch barrel) Tought 1500 fps for a lead bullet wasn't that bad. The weird thing was that only this load shot real tight groups, as in the holes all touched each other (at 25 meters). When finished shooting you just saw one major hole in the target, no separate bullet holes.
I only shot a few of them in the automag V, and they kicked even harder than the Samson factory ammo. So I didn't used them in this pistol anymore.
I never did more research with this load, but tought it could be the combination of bluedot and lead bullets instead of jacket.........
So far about the .50AE.......
Later on I still used bluedot for my calibers 357 mag, 44 mag, 45 WinMag and 10mm auto.
At some point, ALL those loadings started to behave weird......
I have shot thousands of those loads trough my pistols and revolvers before with very good results or malfunctions and at some point they ALL got weird manners. Sometimes they shot like soft loads and the next one could be a very 'hot one'. I had nothing changed to the loading data, so I tought the powder was the "weird factor'. Powder was dry and stored as before, so that couldn't be the problem.
I have always loaded my calibers in batches, I keep the empty cases untill I have plenty to reload. (something around 1000 at a time in the same caliber) So I can say the cartridges were all the same lot.
Anyway, after this happend (some 3 or 4 years ago) I never used bluedot no more.
I switched to Vihtavuori 3N37 which is about the same burning rate as the bluedot, and continue to use this 3N37 till this day with very good results.
|
|
![]() |
|
Stainless Magnum
International Auto Mag
Joined: 10 Mar 2008 Location: New "Old West" Status: Offline Points: 89 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Jun 2008 at 9:11pm |
|
Interesting. Blue Dot has been good to me so far. The only caveat being never to underload it. By the numbers you state, I believe your 16 grain charge was a similiar situation as I described. There is no reason for that load to scream out that fast, other than a possible high pressure underload. Moving up to 19 grains should solve that. The other stuff you describe is odd. Considering your consistency, and bulk supplies, it's hard to blame components other than the powder. I submit these two queries for you as possibilities besides the powder. 1) Did you check and calibrate your scales/ powder measures?
2) Is there any way you got magnum primers in the mix? Blue dot should only be used with standard primers. Magnum primers may not matter much at near maximum loads, but with light loads, they can go berzerk on the powder burn rate.
Thanks for sharing by the way.
David
|
|
|
"Feo, Fuerte, y Formal"
John Wayne, on how he would like to be thought of. Translation: Ugly, strong, and dignified. |
|
![]() |
|
jw4570
Callahan's Auto Mag
Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Location: FL Status: Offline Points: 1334 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Jun 2008 at 2:12am |
|
Blue dot didn't meter well in my Dillon due to static. WW296 meters so much better.
I used it in the 475 Wildey based on the factory recommendation. It worked very well in my 475 Wildey. I sold the pistol, and used up the Blue dot in 38 Special loads (I know, kinda light for 38) just to use it up (I used a recommended load).
No more Blue dot for me, but if I ever had a 475 Wildey again, I'c recommend it for that. I just hated trickling up each charge due to the inconsistency in charge throws.
Jason
|
|
![]() |
|
paul v.
International Auto Mag
Joined: 10 Mar 2008 Location: western ny Status: Offline Points: 90 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Jun 2008 at 4:58am |
|
Luc, I'd like to share a couple experiences that I've had over the years that may or may not have anything to do with your situation. I purchase my powder pound by pound with the lot #'s most often being different than the previous lot#'s. Sometimes the burning rates of these different lots vary enough to show up as higher or lower velocities & pressures in the form of change in point of impact or improper functioning of your weapon. The two greatest offenders that I've encountered are H110 & IMR4831. Greatest differences -there was a 1.5g difference and 150fps in the 44 Auto Mag between 2 lots of H110 to get it up to former velocities and functioning & a 2.5g difference in IMR4831 to get my 6mm up 200fps to previous velocities. Now if you're working with maximum or minimum charges this mqybe signifigant. I was assured by the manufacturer that the various lots would vary no more than about 60fps and that I must be doing something wrong so I sent him 10 of my reloads. He tested my reloads, said that I was right, couldn't explain the differences and sent me 2lbs of the powder of my choice for free & grumbled something I couldn't understand.
Paul V.
|
|
![]() |
|
Luc V.
Admin Group
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1433 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Jun 2008 at 5:43pm |
|
David, I did use other charges when I tried the bluedot for the 50AE, but the groups were not satisfying. I can't remember the min/max I worked with (can look it up in my old books if you want) but the 16 grs charge was the most accurate loading with the NEI 325 lead.
I did use magnum primers (CCI) as I always used before in all the magnum calibers, so I didn't tought this was the problem.
I ALWAYS check my powder charge and calibrate the RCBS scale when I setup my LEE Pro 1000 for a batch of reloads.
I even check charges every 2-300 rounds to see if everything stays OK.
Anyway, this wasn't the only reason I changed powders, the main one was availability! Here in Europe we cant be to picky about what we want, sometimes we have to buy what is available, and since Vihtavuori has the best distributor, I choose the one......
BTW, I still use the V-powders for most of my reloads, handguns and rifles. It's a very good and clean powder to use.
Jason, I also used bluedot in my wildey 45WinMag (yes I still have the frustrating thing;-)with good results, but now I use the 3N37 as the burning rate is similar to the bluedot. So the gas settings on the wildey are the same as I was shooting with bluedot!
I never had any problems with the bluedot in the Lee powder measure, the discs work fine.
Paul,
You could have a good point, when I had this 'incident' with the bluedot (couple of years ago) the powder was bought at a distributor which was closing his doors (as in quit buisyness)
Maybe I got some old stock from his inventory. I know powder is a chemical mixture, so could it be that the burning rate changes if powder gets older or longtime stored?
To late to check the cans now, its all burned..........hahaha......
Thanks all for the info.
|
|
![]() |
|
Ginsaw
Callahan's Auto Mag
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: TN Status: Offline Points: 460 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Jun 2008 at 6:25pm |
|
Luc (or anyone), not to stray too far from the subject but out of curiousity what was the cause of the frustration with the Wildey? Never owned one but have considered it.
I'm not really qualified to speak to the handloading issues, but my prior experience in shotshell reloading seemed to indicate that powders had to be really old before burning rate changes could be noticed. The member of the Herc family I used (a lot) was GreenDot, and I eventually changed to W-W powders partly because they were cleaner burning with less residue. I don't know if that is noticed or plays a role in metallic loading or not.
|
|
![]() |
|
Luc V.
Admin Group
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1433 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Jun 2008 at 7:48pm |
|
quote: ---Luc (or anyone), not to stray too far from the subject but out of curiousity what was the cause of the frustration with the Wildey? Never owned one but have considered it.---
Well Ginsaw, that is another (to long to tell here) story, but at the end of the story I had a mix of parts from 3 different pistols to get a decent one!
Maybe the first I've got was one of the early production pistols, but it was assembled with lousy parts! My brandnew pistol had a cracked slide and welded inernally to cover up. I never shot a single round trough this one, I noticed it when made it ready (cleaning and lubricating) to shoot.
I got another slide from another pistol from my dealer. The barrel extention broke after the first couple of rounds with WW factory ammo. He saw this happen, so made complain at wildey's.....
Received another barrel extention with new barrel installed.(with invoice to pay, but free recoilsprings....) Turned out the chamber was to long in this barrel.........
I have now assembled the "usable parts" together and yep it shoots...
However, I'm still afraid everytime I pull the trigger and wonder if it will hold up.......
My personal advice if you want to buy a wildey is dont ! Yeah,....Wildey's are made heavy.....at the wrong places.........
Stick to the Auto mag's!!!
|
|
![]() |
|
Post Reply
|
Page 12> |
| Tweet |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |