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Auto Mag pistols (10) at Oak Tree Gun Club
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Dances with AutoMags View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
Callahan's Auto Mag
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Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Location: Valley Glen
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Points: 613 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dances with AutoMags Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 3:06pm
Out of curiosity I pulled out a bunch of firing-pins and weighed each of them.
Keep in mind that the recommended weight is 55 grains.
 
ROUND FIRING-PINS
88    gr     X2
69    gr     X1
66.5 gr     X4
66.0 gr     X38
 
TRIANGULAR FIRING-PINS
77.5  gr    X2
75.0  gr    X10
67.0  gr    X1
66.0  gr    X1
 
TRIANGULAR FIRING-PIN (XP TITANIUM)
44.0  gr    X1
 
I too thought this was a rare occurrence until it happened three feet from me.  Ouch
 
An armed society is a polite society.
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Luc V. View Drop Down
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
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Points: 1433 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luc V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 5:15pm
quote"I too thought this was a rare occurrence until it happened three feet from me."

 "It is also a very rare occurrence to see ten automag's at the same shootingrange ! 
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BEEMER1 View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010
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Points: 1366 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEEMER1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 5:39pm
I guess I am repeating myself but this is the first slam fire that I have ever heard of in an Auto Mag.

Does anyone have the fired case or a picture of it?  How far was it into the chamber when it fired?
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Callahan's Auto Mag
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Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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Points: 2091 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Auto Mag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 6:11pm
Very odd that it both slam fired and did not lock up.  Least we not forget that slam fire and firing out of battery are two very different events and if both happened at the same time in this gun that really interesting and frightening.

And while Bruces info about the factory firing pin weights is interesting (thanks for taking the time to weigh them and share this data Bruce!) the firing pin weight and/or any concerns about the firing pin spring and/or other problems are separate apart from the firing out of battery problem.

I would be interesting to know the history of the gun and the ammo and to have seen that actual event in real time as opposed to after the fact.
Who was that masked man,,,
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BEEMER1 View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010
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Points: 1366 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEEMER1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 6:42pm
Originally posted by Auto Mag Auto Mag wrote:

Very odd that it both slam fired and did not lock up.  Least we not forget that slam fire and firing out of battery are two very different events and if both happened at the same time in this gun that really interesting and frightening.

And while Bruces info about the factory firing pin weights is interesting (thanks for taking the time to weigh them and share this data Bruce!) the firing pin weight and/or any concerns about the firing pin spring and/or other problems are separate apart from the firing out of battery problem.

I would be interesting to know the history of the gun and the ammo and to have seen that actual event in real time as opposed to after the fact.

That is why I would like to see the case, it might hold some clues to what happened.
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Dances with AutoMags View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
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Joined: 13 Oct 2011
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Points: 613 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dances with AutoMags Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 7:44pm

 

Tim made a high speed video of the bolt bouncing rearwards before it settles in and turns to lock.

 
 

Tim Bell wrote this on Sat 10/27/2018.  "This is how the Auto Mag pistol can fire inertially before the bolt locks.  The firing pin is allowed to move through the bolt face as it bottoms out against the base of the cartridge and never has the opportunity to lock up. This is how the locking lugs on the bolt and barrel extension do not show damage.

 

 

Several things have to come together to make this happen.  One or more of the following. Weak firing pin spring, Federal primer, 76 grain weight firing pin, dropping the cartridge in the chamber and pointing the pistol downward and releasing the bolt to move forward at speed or only one round in the magazine and the  pistol pointed downward.

 

I was able to duplicate the incident several times in the shop simply by loading cartridges with a live primer and using 23 grains of granulated pepper and 240gr Hornady XTP.

 

I believe incidents similar to the one I experienced has destroyed many Auto Mag pistols.

 

 

I would imagine this can also occur in a partial lockup resulting in damaged bolt and extension lugs. But need to see it happen during high speed filming to prove it.

 

Tim Bell  "

 
 

(I can't seem to post the video)   BS

 

 

 

 

 
An armed society is a polite society.
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BEEMER1 View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010
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Points: 1366 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BEEMER1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 8:10pm
Thanks for the post, that explains a lot.

I bought a Pasadena parts gun on GB years ago that was all locked up and the seller could not open it and stated so.  I bought it fairly cheaply  but not knowing really what was wrong with it.

I got the gun open and the ring was bent back and the barrel latch was bent but everything else looked OK.  The locking lugs on the receiver and the bolt were fine.  

I just now checked the firing pin and it is triangular in shape and weighs 75.3 grains.

Well that answers a few of my questions.

Thanks  Bruce and Tim Bell!
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golden24 View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 Feb 2019
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Points: 505 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote golden24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 8:32pm
Originally posted by BEEMER1 BEEMER1 wrote:

Originally posted by Auto Mag Auto Mag wrote:

Very odd that it both slam fired and did not lock up.  Least we not forget that slam fire and firing out of battery are two very different events and if both happened at the same time in this gun that really interesting and frightening.

And while Bruces info about the factory firing pin weights is interesting (thanks for taking the time to weigh them and share this data Bruce!) the firing pin weight and/or any concerns about the firing pin spring and/or other problems are separate apart from the firing out of battery problem.

I would be interesting to know the history of the gun and the ammo and to have seen that actual event in real time as opposed to after the fact.

That is why I would like to see the case, it might hold some clues to what happened.

I didn't get an image of the fired case but I think Jon should have it, it was his gun.
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Auto Mag View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
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Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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Points: 2091 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Auto Mag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 8:52pm
Hi Bob,

Curious to know if you checked the firing pin to make sure there was no melted primer residue, or that the pin was bent, or that the spring was gummed up?

The element of pointing the gun down is an interesting one, cant say I have ever done that when dropping the slide on any gun, but I have seen others do it.  I was always taught to point it down range.

Over the years I have seen several broken bolts and lugs stripped out of Auto Mag barrels, but all the Auto Mags I have personally seen, I have only seen one with a bent ring and it was just a frame so I dont know if the barrel/bolt lugs were damaged. And in the countless thousands and thousands of rounds I have fired in many Auto Mags over the years, thankfully I have never once had a slam fire myself,  so I'm guessing this is still a very low incident event.

That said it should never happen. 

Forget about damage to the gun, no one wants a full power 44 AMP round going off unexpectedly, that is beyond dangerous!




Who was that masked man,,,
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golden24 View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
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Joined: 15 Feb 2019
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Points: 505 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote golden24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 9:28pm
a few more images to load..Cry
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