AMT Guns forum

Forum Home Forum Home > Auto Mag Pistol > Message Board
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Reloading experiment....
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Reloading experiment....

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 456
Author
Message
Luc V. View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 1338
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luc V. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2020 at 4:53pm
Just my experience, but I have never annealed any handgun case, except the bottleneck ones (357Sig, 400 corBon, etc). However, you can't go wrong when you do anneal them. All you do is make the casemouth softer so it's easier ( more "elastic") to size and crimp.
A brasscase will get harder from sizing+shooting and all what happend if you do not anneal is the case might split at the mouth. I have some never annealed 357 Magnums that are over 20 times reloaded and are still good. Some split some dont.
Trimming them to the correct length is more important.

 

Back to Top
TRX302 View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
Callahan's Auto Mag
Avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 2011
Location: Arkansas
Status: Offline
Points: 680
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRX302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2021 at 2:42am
Originally posted by Pantera Mike Pantera Mike wrote:

primers from that batch. They may have been very old, or exposed to moisture, or ???


The go-to compound for non-corrosive priming compounds is lead styphnate. During the Clinton Administration the ATF issued some directives pressuring ammo makers to "phase out" lead-containing priming compounds. That didn't last too long, as none of the alternative compounds worked as well as lead styphnate, which is why we used it in the first place... Sometimes you find 1990s brass with oversized primer pockets; those were made to take oversize primers, that much compound being needed to get the same brisance as lead styphnate. Most of those compounds had a limited shelf life; after three or four years, they wouldn't go off reliably, more, and they were essentially inert. Which the ATF didn't see as problem...

During the Obama administration the GAO instructed the military to go to lead-free, or at least low-lead, ammunition. Again, a solution to a problem nobody else saw. The military doesn't see old ammunition as much of a problem, so new milspec ammo has been using variants of the same old "green" priming compounds.

Some of those have reportedly been found in the wild, in both loaded ammo and components. They're not marked, at least in any way a consumer might be able to tell what they're buying. But some percentage of primers in various stashes might as well be Play-Doh by now.

Some people have suggested prying the anvil out of a primer in a new batch and examining the priming pellet. Is it larger than normal? Is the color correct for the brand and type? If not, you might have "green" primers.

Back to Top
Pantera Mike View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
Callahan's Auto Mag


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 786
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pantera Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2021 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by Pantera Mike Pantera Mike wrote:

And we’re back!  Fun day at the ranch, and very educational. 

[snip]

This was a very fun technical exercise. My next ambition is to analyze bullet performance. To that end, I purchased some Clear Ballistics gelatin today, and the next time I go out to the ranch, I will test both 357 and 44 AMP bullet expansion and penetration, using the Hornady XTP, as well as some other 357 and 44 bullets I have lying around. 

Stay tuned!



Well, it’s taken an eternity for me to make good on my threat above, but I finally got a chance to go to my friend’s ranch yesterday. 

For the 44 AMP, besides the Hornady 240gr XTP, I also had the Sierra 240gr hollow cavity, Speer 240gr Deepcurl Hollow Point, and 240gr Deepcurl Soft Point. 

For the 357 AMP I only had the Hornady 158gr XTP, and a generic old-fashioned 158gr hollow point from Everglades Ammo.

The results were very mixed and I confess to being a little surprised at how poorly some of the bullets performed. Clearly there have been tremendous advances in bullet design in recent years and this is borne out by the results. 

I will attempt to upload some photos here:

Ack. Fail. 40 minutes of trying with different photo sizes and formats and the forum software has rejected them all. I haven’t yet created an Imgur account but I think I will now, and come back and reply to this post once I have pics there. 

In the meantime I shall post raw data thusly:


                             Penetration (inches)          Expansion                 Retained weight

44 AMP:

Speer JSP                  42                                  Zero                       240gr

Sierra JHC                 30 (backwards)                Zero                       236gr

Hornady XTP             21                                   .635                       225gr

Speer HP                  20                                   .690                       240gr


357 AMP:

Everglades JHP         18                                    .550                       112

Hornady XTP            19                                    .542                       129


Pics and analysis to follow in a subsequent post....



Back to Top
Pantera Mike View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
Callahan's Auto Mag


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 786
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pantera Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2021 at 9:35pm

Back to Top
Pantera Mike View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
Callahan's Auto Mag


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 786
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pantera Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2021 at 9:59pm
Okay, that’s more like it!  Imgur interface is a bit clunky but I figured it out. 

The photos tell quite the tale. As you can see, the Speer JSP didn’t really achieve much of anything in the expansion department, although clearly it was trying. I suspect this bullet is intended for use in 44 Magnum rifles and demands much greater velocities before it will perform properly. As it is, it seems to act much like a hard cast lead bullet and will penetrate almost any target you put in front of it. 

The Sierra JHC performance was incredibly disappointing. This is an ancient design from the dawn of hollow point Bullets, and clearly shows wishful thinking on the part of the manufacturer. Of the two that I shot into the test medium, one penetrated something like 45 inches in a curved arc and exited out the top of the block and wasn’t recovered. The one pictured here penetrated 42 inches and turned around backwards in the process. 

Fail.

The standby Hornady XTP is also a rather old design, known for expanding reliably, but not very much. It went from .429 to .635, while shedding 15 grains of lead bits along the way, stopping at 21 inches. 

The superstar of this test is the Speer HP. Rather than a jacketed bullet, Speer uses a plating process. The majority of their bullets use the Gold Dot name, and are intended for defensive use, designed to expand dramatically at relatively low velocities. They make a 200gr GDHP intended for defensive use at 44 Special velocities, and don’t publish any 44 Magnum load data for it. The 240 grain bullet is part of their Deepcurl line, which seems to be biased towards hunting, and higher velocities. 

In the 44 AMP the performance seems nothing short of outstanding. Maximum expansion of .690 inches, and perfect 100% weight retention, while penetrating the least of all bullets tested, 20 inches. 

I only loaded two rounds and only fired one, so I don’t know how well they would feed in the Auto Mag.  If I intended to use mine for anything more than an expensive plinker, I would definitely be looking to work up a load with the GDHP, and assuming it fed reliably, I would view that as the ultimate bullet of choice for anything more serious than shooting at paper or water jugs. 

On the 357 side unfortunately I didn’t have many bullets to choose from. The old standby Hornady XTP did just fine, as expected, although it did lose almost 30 grains along the way. The cheap, generic Everglades JHP expanded okay, but it partially disintegrated in a similar fashion, and like the XTP it rudely deposited bits of lead throughout my gel blocks which I now have to fish out. Retained weight was only 112gr.

For my next experiment, I think I am going to perform some kinetic experiments, shooting at 1-gallon water jugs, in an effort to see if one can discern the differences in performance among the various rounds. That day will net videos instead of photos which I will post to YouTube.  

No promises as to when that might happen. All I can say is, once again, stay tuned!
Back to Top
Lance C View Drop Down
180 Auto Mag
180 Auto Mag
Avatar

Joined: 01 Dec 2020
Location: Viera, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lance C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2021 at 6:19pm

For What It’s Worth to those interested:

 .357AMP loads from mid ’70 to early ‘80s

90 gr Sierra 9mm JHC/27.0/WW296/CCI 350/2265 fps

90 gr Sierra 9mm JHC/29.0/WW296/CCI 350/2493 fps – most accurate 4 ¾” at 100 yds

90 gr Sierra 9mm JHC/30.0/WW296/CCI 350/2495 fps – Max pressure.

140 gr Speer JHP/20.5/WW296/CCI 350/1910 fps – excellent load

150 gr Sierra JHC/20.5/WW296/CCI 350/1850 fps – excellent load under 4” at 100 yds

180 gr Speer FP/19.5/WW296/CCI350/1533 fps – excellent ram load, but single-shot.
All loads were fired through an 8 1/2" barrel.  Cases were revamped LC .308 brass.

Most of the shown bullets are no longer made.  Data for information only.

I strongly recommend starting at least 5% below these loads and working up. 


 Original .44AMP loads from mid '70s to early '80s.

180 gr Sierra JHC/31.5/WW296/CCI 350/2090 fps - My favorite load

240 Hornady JHP/25.5/WW296/CCI 350/1590 fps – light load

240 Hornady JHP/26.0/WW296/CCI 350/1640fps – very accurate

200 gr Lyman cast 429215GCHP/27.5/WW296/1740 fps – Max load


Lyman 429421 cast/22.5/WW296/CCI 350/1580fps – One-shot kill on a whitetail.  Broke up on off-side shoulder.


265 Hornady/22.5/WW296/CCI 350/1510fps – One-shot kill on a mule deer.  Full penetration chest to ham to air to pine tree.

All loads were fired through an 8 1/2" barrel.  Cases were revamped LC .308 brass.

 With the 180gr Sierra, anything under 30.0 of WW296 wouldn't function in my gun.  My notes say to try 32.0 – 32.5 gr of 296, so I guess the pressure with 31.5 was pretty moderate.

A load with 29.5 gr of 296 gave me 1880fps, but wouldn't push the bolt back far enough to pick up the case rim. The gun would extract and eject the fired case, but recoil would tip the next round nose-up and the bolt would hit the case in the middle.

I’ve fired all the .44AMP jacketed loads through my current 6 ½” TDE El Monte and they function well.  Haven’t chronoed them in the shorter barrel yet. 

Oddly enough, all loads will group inside 4” at 50 yds from standing.  I can mix them in the magazine and hit a row of clay pigeons set on the 50 yd berm. 

This seriously freaks out the folks struggling to stay on the paper at 10 yds.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 456

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2023 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.047 seconds.

 - amtguns.info All rights reserved