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AMT III Shell Casings Marking Up Slide

Printed From: AMT Guns information
Category: Auto Mag Pistol
Forum Name: FAQ
Forum Description: They always get asked so take a look first.
URL: http://www.amtguns.info/forum_posts.asp?TID=2540
Printed Date: 13 Nov 2019 at 3:16pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: AMT III Shell Casings Marking Up Slide
Posted By: SteveS
Subject: AMT III Shell Casings Marking Up Slide
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 7:50am
Hello Everyone

Just picked up a LNIB AMT III in 30 carbine  Put some work into it with new grips and cerekote and brought to the range this week.  Ran like a champ but I noticed the shells are hitting the top of my slide and marking up the finish.  The ejection pattern appears to be 45 degree as I would expect and shells are ejecting 2-3FT away.  Not sure the cause.  

Thoughts? 

Thank you  








Replies:
Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 11:12am
 Let see  a picture of the Ejector. 


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 5:05pm
Would also be nice to have some pics of the shells. That would allow you to know what part of the shells are doing the hitting and maybe figure out it's path. That may allow for a better understanding of the issue.


Posted By: SteveS
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 8:16pm






Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 8:43pm
Thanks for the picture of your Extractor. It looks just fine to me.
However, a picture of the EJECTOR would be nice. That's the part sitting in your frame. No need to take it out, a picture from the sideview and front would tell more.


Posted By: SteveS
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 8:48pm
oh yes. Misread the first time.  Will get a pic when I pick back up from my gunsmith / cerekoter later this week. So do you have a pic of what a proper ejector should look like on these AMTs?


Posted By: AndyC
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 9:56pm
The cause is that shell-cases spin when they're heaved out the gun and often hit just outside the ejection-port.

Unless you're willing to start doing oddball stuff like changing the angle on the ejector, etc, etc then leave it alone; some folks put tape or whatever behind the port, but if you expect to get an ejecting shell to miss the outside of the port, you're going to have to put in a lot of time and effort to tune it just right.


-------------
http://bane.2hell.com" rel="nofollow - My Iraq Pics


Posted By: SteveS
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 11:14pm
Thanks for the feedback. I assumed it would cause a lot of tuning headaches and wasn’t willing to go that route. I decided to stipple that area on the slide instead to better hide impact marks.  Below is a rough picture and has been cleaned up a bit more. It’s off at cerekote now






Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 6:53am
HOLY COW! You got some issues with that many scuff marks on that slide! Wow!
Ok, I understand you wanted a nice looking shooter, now you got one. Enjoy
I personally like the challenge to figure it out and fix it. i own a few of these and never seen that issue before. Would have love to know what the fix would have been.
Want to see finished pics, after you get last coating on it please.
Thanks for sharing


Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 2:43pm
Some pictures of how the ejector should sticking out towards the muzzle. If to short (broken) the cases can fly anywhere.

Just a remark, the first picture is one I made for Ian's AMT IV . I make those are bigger in size and stronger all over.
Changing the angle to eject is not magic, just very minor changing the ejectors front side (contact with case) will make all the differance. The originals are probably pressed from sheet metal and buttersoft anyway.

2nd and third picture are the AMT III.

https://bulk-share.slickpic.com/album/share/MMyMMzMMyxxNjj/16368236.1/org/p/IMG_20190809_161445.jpg" rel="nofollow">

https://bulk-share.slickpic.com/album/share/MMyMMzMMyxxNjj/16368233.1/org/p/DSC02081.jpg" rel="nofollow">

https://bulk-share.slickpic.com/album/share/MMyMMzMMyxxNjj/16368235.1/org/p/DSC02082.jpg" rel="nofollow">



Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 2:48pm
oh by the way XP001, I like your sense of humor...
That stipling does look rough in the picture, but picture are Always overdue the details.


Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 8:04pm
Yes, the filemanager does have problems. I had the same troubles uploading.
I think this site needs an update.

In the mean time, try to upload and link pictures to a (free) picture hosting site such as Slickpic, photobucket etc.


Posted By: SteveS
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 8:24pm


Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2019 at 8:32pm
Yes, your ejector is bent. You can try to fix it by hammering it back inline on a flat surface. It's worth the try.

That is the reason I make them wider, to fill the groove in the frame completely.
The wider ejector also "rides" in slide better and can no longer bent like that.

Here's the Original ejector compared to my homemade ejector on the right. (never mind the yelow marks, it's an old picture of my .50 and 10mm magnum) The ejectors are the same.
Almost twice as wide and fill the frame and slidegrove completely. No more space to bent.

https://bulk-share.slickpic.com/album/share/TLjzNYmMQLVjYU/16369519.1/org/p/DSC00204.jpg" rel="nofollow">




Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 3:31pm
If you make them thicker to fill that spot and slide groove would it also make them stronger to avoid that bending? How did it get bent like that? Stuck casehead in breechface or ? Hard to think what would cause that force to bend it unless someone thought to "adjust" it to help it work better.
Any thoughts?

You can also make a new one with the thicker metal and see if it stops that banging although you have to try harder now to confirm it as the pinpricks won't show it now as plainly . As the shells brounced off the slide where did they end up going? Just at your feet or over your head or ?


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 3:51pm
Another thought, maybe it got bent because when somebody was reassembling this they pushed the ejector into it's final position and then "rammed" the slide rearward onto frame thus slamming the back side of slide into the front end of ejector causing it to bend like that. Then realized the ejector position issue, reset it properly and reinstalled slide not realizing the damage done by the bend.
Well this sounds like it was the cause unless someone can make another situation . It fits perfect as it looks like a crumble bend, more than just one angle bend than a angle bend that a person might do.


Posted By: SteveS
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 3:56pm
since I was unfamiliar with AMT I didn’t actually realize it was bent when I got the gun. It almost looks like the previous owner bent intentionally but there where no marks on the slide when I got the gun so maybe they never actually fired it.

I only ran 100 rounds thru it and didn’t notice the marks until maybe my second box but wasn’t really looking for marks there. Was really just focused on testing both mags and both ammo types I brought   Maybe it did bend during my range trip. The ejection pattern looked perfect. 45 degree 3ft or so away


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 3:58pm
I have done this but I never "rammed" the slide back into it as I slowly slide  it back to find it didn't go back enough, that's when I spotted the ejector end sticking up stopping the slide.
Live and learning still. 


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 4:05pm
Wow, only 3 feet! Mine throws them shells 6-9 feet, it's a bear to find them in the grass. Now sure how bad it would marked the rear of slide if that was the cause but it would only take one good ram to do it. If you look good it has the look of being smashed back into (more than one bend/angle) if it was an adjustment I would think it would have only one bend in it.


Posted By: SteveS
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 4:10pm
seems like the assembly and disassembly went smooth so not sure anything was rammed. I did notice it’s super easy to bend the ejector straight again.  Very soft metal geese. Unless this wasn’t properly heat treated 

Given how clean the gun was, I wonder if the first owner had issues with assembly and disassembly.  Jammed the ejector and never bothered taking to the range.   The gun looked unfired when I got it 


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 4:17pm
I was NOT saying you did this but was done a one time in its life and was maybe never spotted before.

Like a guy always playing with his stuff but never actually shooting it, thus leaving no marks. Then decides to sell it as he never used it, now you get it a run a few to find this issue. 

Anything could have happened but just saying this was more likely in my mind. Let us know if it works better when straight.


Posted By: SteveS
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 4:30pm
yep exactly right    And I was just clarifying what I knew of the guns history    Never assumed you were implying anything negative in the least bit.  Everyone here on this forum has been super helpful and all advice is great appreciated.    

That’s how we all get better   Thank you 

PS.   I also happen to own a lot of the more “unique” / oddball guns from the late 80s / mid 90s so forums are super useful for learning some guns quirks or habits. 
(ie Safari Arms 1911, Coonan 357 mag 1911, AMTs)


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 4:35pm
Sometimes type doesn't come off right and cause hard feelings. I'm just always trying to learn also so may ask many stupid questions that upset a few. Not such thing as a stupid question as it might lead to the correct answer. Update when you can 



Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 5:09pm
To SteveS:
Now you can do the test, if you have straighten the ejector, put it back in the gun, make sure you don't bent it when you put the slide back on and go to the range and shoot it.
I'm pretty sure it will be bent again after shooting a box or two.
I have seen to many broken ejectors before, and most of mine broke as well.
Couple of weeks ago Ian broke one on his 45 WinMag…
 
On a side note, broken ejectors can be good, I bought two pistols because the previous owners sold it cheap because it was'nt functioning well and they didn't knew the ejectors were broken...Big smile


Posted By: SteveS
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 5:14pm
Maybe this has been answered elsewhere but are there sources for buying new ejectors?  Or are any members on here making / selling them?  Or making thicker ones than factory. 

Cost not really important.  Just need backups.  

Thanks


Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by XP001 XP001 wrote:

If you make them thicker to fill that spot and slide groove would it also make them stronger to avoid that bending? How did it get bent like that? Stuck casehead in breechface or ? Hard to think what would cause that force to bend it unless someone thought to "adjust" it to help it work better.
Any thoughts?
I'll try my guess: because the ejector is thinner as the groove in the slide and frame, it can wobble.
By making it thicker it will be supported all the way and there is no free space left to bent. Just have a look how far the ejector sticks out on a retracted slide, and look at steve's picture where the bents are.
Two points, just in front of the frame and at the end of slide's face.
I guess because it has to much play, it can wiggle and fold and will eventually break at that exact point. By making it wider it is fully supported and will not have that kick left to right. That is hard to explain in words what I mean…
Anyway, the biggest problem with the ejectors is that they are to soft to start with...

You can also make a new one with the thicker metal and see if it stops that banging although you have to try harder now to confirm it as the pinpricks won't show it now as plainly . As the shells brounced off the slide where did they end up going? Just at your feet or over your head or ?


Posted By: XP001
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2019 at 8:28pm
Well it doesn't look to hard to make once you have the thickness correct. Like anything a little try this or that will get it right after a few. Not sure what would be a fair cost as it's hard to say how long a made up one would last.
I also guess if it is thicker it would have more rigditness to it so understand what you are saying why you went thicker. I just know once bent makes it more likely to be weaken and act up again with less cause. Glad my never bent as I have a thousand or so rds down without this issue.

As far as trying to confirm no issue with the slide dimple already being there, you can always stuck a little masking tape over that area and check for marks on it after shooting. Masking tape shows easy as well and soft denting.

I have a Safari and Coonan also, I always wanted to know more about my Coonan as the markings are not the normal I think. We need to talk shop about these, lol. My Safari is a convertible, has 2 barrels and such, yeah I forgot which, it's been a long time since playing with it. I have never shot it but it might have been, not sure.




Posted By: Luc V.
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2019 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by SteveS SteveS wrote:

Maybe this has been answered elsewhere but are there sources for buying new ejectors?  Or are any members on here making / selling them?  Or making thicker ones than factory. 

Cost not really important.  Just need backups.  

Thanks


You might get some "original reproductions" here:

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/884720B" rel="nofollow - https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/884720B


Posted By: SteveS
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2019 at 7:22pm
yes thank you.  I ended up ordering 3 of them a few days ago. 
Another member on here (XP001) let me know of that source as well. 

Thanks again. Appreciated. 



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