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How to change helicoils?

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Pantera Mike View Drop Down
International Auto Mag
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pantera Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 9:53pm
No, I’m told Loc Tite and oil are equally bad. I just used locking helicoils. 

The strip was a nice bonus. Here is the link to the eBay auction:

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jw4570 View Drop Down
Callahan's Auto Mag
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jw4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2018 at 1:30am
So did you use the triangle spade looking thing to remove them?

I guess I should have said I knew there were more than just tang or tangless, but the tang is the most common. I'm figuring that's what you used and broke off the tang?

Jason
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Pantera Mike View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pantera Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2018 at 4:06am
I actually made my own removal tool by grinding a tapered knife edge into the sides of a small screwdriver. The tang tools I had ween were intended for flush-mounted helicoils. The tool in my photo above is the installation tool.  It grabs the tang at the bottom of the helicoil, and slightly shrinks the helicoil as it is installing it because it twists it slightly. If you tried to unwind it, it would expand and be next to impossible to turn. 

The helicoil is inserted so that the end is not bottomed out in the cavity in the cocking piece, then the tang is snapped off.
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jw4570 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jw4570 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2018 at 9:05pm
Did you buy the installation tool? The tang type used to be readily available at auto parts stores like NAPA. It was a kit with a few helicoils and a tang type tool and usually the proper tap (and maybe drill) for repairing common sizes on cars. We don't need all that stuff. My recollection was that the tool was nothing more than a t handle slightly smaller with a slot cut in the bottom.

Did the screwdriver tool work ok and bite into the helicoil? it was heard enough? I keep old screwdrivers around for that purpose too. I have a few "custom" ones.

I actually have a tangless tool in the correct size, never used it. I also have a few "prewinders" for Helicoils too (but I think they are automotive sizes as they are in the garage).

I have a love hate relationship with helicoils…….They are great when you need one, the trick is not to need one if it's not necessary.
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Pantera Mike View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pantera Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2018 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by jw4570 jw4570 wrote:

Did you buy the installation tool? The tang type used to be readily available at auto parts stores like NAPA. It was a kit with a few helicoils and a tang type tool and usually the proper tap (and maybe drill) for repairing common sizes on cars. We don't need all that stuff. My recollection was that the tool was nothing more than a t handle slightly smaller with a slot cut in the bottom.

Did the screwdriver tool work ok and bite into the helicoil? it was heard enough? I keep old screwdrivers around for that purpose too. I have a few "custom" ones.

I actually have a tangless tool in the correct size, never used it. I also have a few "prewinders" for Helicoils too (but I think they are automotive sizes as they are in the garage).

I have a love hate relationship with helicoils…….They are great when you need one, the trick is not to need one if it's not necessary.

Yes, I bought an installation kit consisting of a flat-bottomed tap, installation tool and some helicoils of the non-locking variety which I set aside. The removal tool wouldn’t have worked (and wasn’t included) because the top of the helicoils weren’t  flush with the top of the holes. A good quality Craftsman screwdriver sacrificed its life in the name of the project. It was narrowed just enough to be smaller than the size of the threaded openings in the cocking piece, but wider than the inside diameter of the helicoils. Then the edges were ground to a knife edge. With the cocking piece supported in a vice (with an old automotive serpentine belt used to pad the vice) a few light raps with a small hammer was enough to get the tool to bite into the inside of the helicoils and then they could carefully be wound out. It often took several attempts as it would come out 2-3 revolutions then the tool would slip. But once we got the hang of it (I was working with a machinist friend at his shop) it wasn’t too difficult.

You would never want to install a new helicoil that way.  The proper tang tool did the trick just fine.

I had some difficulty with one hole installing the replacement, and after destroying a number of them we ran the tap to clean up the threads and got a bunch of debris out. Once that was done the next helicoil went in fine. 

We probably destroyed 12-15 helicoils in the process. The learning curve was pretty steep. Many would get just about installed but the last coil would choose to flip out and not follow the rest, and then we would have to dig it out and start over. 

It was a fun project I hope not to have to do again anytime soon!
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John Nada View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nada Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2018 at 2:36am
Originally posted by Pantera Mike Pantera Mike wrote:

No, I’m told Loc Tite and oil are equally bad. I just used locking helicoils. 

The strip was a nice bonus. Here is the link to the eBay auction:



This is the exact Helicoil needed for original replacement?
(Do you have 25 of them in this auction? )
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Pantera Mike View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pantera Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2018 at 6:00am
uh...I can’t guarantee that is how the guy is still selling them. All I can tell you is that I bought mine from that seller, and they came on a strip. 

Nor can I tell you for sure that they are ‘right’. They are the proper size to fit, and their length matches the length of the threads on the recoil rods.  But I don’t know for sure what the guns originally came with.
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TankMan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TankMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2018 at 1:26pm
I have to ask a dumb question: Why are threaded inserts required on an Automag? was there an
issue with direct threading of the part involved? Apologies if the answer is obvious. I'm not unfamiliar with machine work however I've yet to use a helical  type thread insert ...

See I told you it was dumb.

Jerry
http://tanks.linite.com
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TRX302 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRX302 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2018 at 4:22pm
Taps wear, and the holes wear when the rods are screwed in and out, and if the fit isn't perfect, the holes get wallowed out from the offset load across the recoil rods.

You can get a more consistent thread fit and finish with the Helicoils than with a simple tapped hole. And if the hole wears, you just replace the Helicoil.

The Auto Mag doesn't *have* to have the Helicoils, but they were a good design decision that probably cut down on manufacturing rejects and failures in the field, and made repair of the cocking pieces practical instead of replacement.
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Travis Morgan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Travis Morgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2018 at 5:02pm
Originally posted by TankMan TankMan wrote:

Why are threaded inserts required on an Automag?  Apologies if the answer is obvious.
Jerry
http://tanks.linite.com

I would imagine the decision to use what is literally heat treated spring steel, was to prevent thread wear on what otherwise would have been cast stainless. 
Especially critical for a thread that is required for take-down disassembly; keeping in mind it would be cheaper to replace rods if needed.

So why does it make any sense to use helicoils on on an AutoMag?  ...... "It just does"




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