Cast bullet FAIL |
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Pantera Mike
Callahan's Auto Mag Joined: 20 Jan 2018 Status: Offline Points: 786 |
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Posted: 22 Jun 2022 at 1:43am |
All,
After reading about Andy’s success with cast bullets I deduced to give it a go myself. I found two suitable 240 gr hard cast coated bullets from Missouri Bullet Company and ordered 500 of each. Today I loaded a handful of test rounds with 22.5gr of WW-296. The max advertised cartridge overall length (COL) for the 44 AMP is 1.695”. I seated them initially to 1.640”, then loaded them in the magazine and test-cycled them to ensure they would feed. After ejection, I measured them again and they had all grown! Most were about 1.650-1.655”. I loaded them all in the magazine again and once again cycled the bolt to chamber and eject each of them, and then they were all 1.670-1.685”. I tried all sorts of tricks—no neck flaring, more taper crimping, less taper crimping, seating deeper, seating shallower, nothing worked. In some cases, I could take a completed round from my press and simply pinch it and drive the bullet into the case. As an experiment I loaded several Hornady XTP 240gr JHP and ran them through the same cycle. Repeated loadings and ejections resulted in zero bullet movement. Maybe the results would have been different if I was using cut down rifle brass instead of thinner Starline pistol brass. But it seems that the slippery coating they put on their coated bullets is simply too much for the case walls to contain. (I’m using an RCBS carbide sizing die). Fortunately I load 44 Magnum also. I’m about to load some test rounds and see if they do any better there. But at least for 44 AMP I will be sticking with jacketed bullets.
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Luc V.
Admin Group Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1338 |
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Hi Mike,
are you sure the bullets are at least diameter .429 or even better .430 ? It sounds you have bullets in size .427 made for the 44-40 Winchester caliber.
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Pantera Mike
Callahan's Auto Mag Joined: 20 Jan 2018 Status: Offline Points: 786 |
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Luc, good question! No, these are .430 bullets especially intended for 44 magnum. I measured them. I just loaded a box of 44 Magnum revolver rounds and they work perfectly there. It’s possible that if I got the uncoated versions of these lead bullets they might have worked in my Starline 44 AMP cases? But the coated bullets are VERY slippery.
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Luc V.
Admin Group Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1338 |
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Thanks for your info Mike, always good to learn from others! Years ago I used some copperplated bullets that were also very shiny and slick. I could never get a consistent velocity or accuracy with those. Also lots of unburned powder. You need a good grip to case/bullet to start making the powder burn well. If not, the primer has enough force/pressure to push the powder foreward and blow the bullet foreward off the case before the powder start to burn. You might try a firm rollcrimp for a revolver, but don't overdue this or the coating could be cut in half... Keep an eye on the unburned powder after shooting some, that's usual a good indicator for inconsistency. |
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jw4570
Callahan's Auto Mag Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Location: FL Status: Offline Points: 1319 |
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There have been others that talked of problems with cast boolits in the Automags. I don't shoot them in Automags or try so I have no experience. I use them in 38, 44 spl and mag, and 45 colt, among a lot of other older calibers originally cast.
Those will make fine 44 SPL loads, which is a favorite of mine to shoot in the revolver. Jason
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Pantera Mike
Callahan's Auto Mag Joined: 20 Jan 2018 Status: Offline Points: 786 |
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Yup, same here. I shoot coated cast Keith bullets in 357, 44 Special/Mag, and 45 colt, and coated SWC in 45 ACP, and coated FP in 10mm, all with no issues. I use JHP for all Auto Mag, and 357/44 Bain & Davis. I guess I will have to stick with that for now….
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AndyC
Callahan's Auto Mag Joined: 04 Jul 2015 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 455 |
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Ouch. That's not an experience I've had at all - but I first tried the regular cast/lubed bullets as they came from SNS and then coated using Eastwood's "Silver Vein" powder which is a little rough. Neither of them budged - all I can imagine is that whatever coating Missouri uses is pretty slick. Another thing - while I recently did buy the new RCBS die-set, I haven't used them and therefore haven't used the T/C sizing die as you have, Mike; maybe that is another factor? |
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Pantera Mike
Callahan's Auto Mag Joined: 20 Jan 2018 Status: Offline Points: 786 |
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I thought the same thing. Maybe I was over-crimping and causing the case to bulge. So I tried with less crimp, no crimp, lots of crimp. Also with less neck belling, even no belling. Made no difference. I just couldn’t get sufficient neck tension. Yet the same bullets in 44 Mag work perfectly.
Maybe I would have had better luck with 44 AMP cases converted from rifle brass? But it seems the Starline cases are just a bit thin…. Since I shoot plenty of 44 Special and Magnum too, I just got some uncoated hard cast bullets: Rated to 1600 fps without gas checks. I will give these a try with 44 AMP and if they don’t work either, I will happily send them down revolver tubes….
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Stainless Magnum
International Auto Mag Joined: 10 Mar 2008 Location: New "Old West" Status: Offline Points: 80 |
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Have you tried partially sizing the neck with the .44 Magnum die?
I read carefully, but didn't see if you did that . I had a similar problem with bullets sliding after crimp on some 50/70 loads (smokeless BTW). I sized the neck with a 50AE die, and belled afterwards. The added neck tension made them the best loads I have ever shot. Very consistent velocities. Good luck in any case .
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"Feo, Fuerte, y Formal"
John Wayne, on how he would like to be thought of. Translation: Ugly, strong, and dignified. |
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jw4570
Callahan's Auto Mag Joined: 08 Mar 2008 Location: FL Status: Offline Points: 1319 |
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You could try the LEE collect type factory crimp die:
They have one for 44 Auto Mag.
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